Interview by Natalie Solmer

Mary Ardery is an Indiana poet who has been on my radar for a while, and I was really excited when her debut book, Level Watch, came out last fall. I read it cover to cover and was obsessed! I was honored when she agreed to be our featured poet for spring. We spoke over Zoom recently. The transcript of our conversation has been edited for clarity.

NS: In an interview with Debbie Weingarten for Transylvania Times, you spoke about how this collection came to be. You said, “I took a job as a wilderness guide for a substance abuse treatment program because I’d been looking for something challenging and meaningful to do in between college and graduate school. I’d also grown up with a father who was a recovering alcoholic, so I’d always been curious about addiction and aware of the recovery world.” In addition, you spoke about how at first you didn’t think you could write the book because the topic is too huge, but after a couple years away from the job, the poems started coming, some as elegies for clients who passed away.

I’m just always interested in how poets create themed collections. Honestly, I’m not typically into themed collections, but I LOVE love, love your book! It’s so strong.

So my question is, when the poems started coming to you, did you realize right away that you could make an entire book out of this experience?

MA: When the poems did start coming, I was in an MFA program, and when I started writing these poems, they were the poems that I was getting the most positive feedback on. And so I was like, okay, I’m going to continue this and see how it goes. And then my thesis advisor, Judy Jordan, she’s somebody who has an MFA in both fiction and poetry, and so she tends to really guide her folks to have that narrative arc.

NS: Yes. Okay.

MA: But that was not what I came in thinking I would write because I am not a fiction writer. Plot I find very overwhelming to write.

NS:  Same.

MA: At some point, I did have to make the decision because I was writing a lot of hometown poems too.

I have your book here [holds up NS’s book, Water Castle]. I was spending more time with it this week before we spoke, and I just relate to so many of your Indiana hometown poems.

And so I was kind of torn between which one of these themes am I going to complete? I ended up going with this route, even though the topic did feel more unwieldy before I started writing it. It also had this finite ending of, like, I’m not doing the job anymore [as a wilderness guide for substance abuse treatment].

NS: So once you’re conscious of, alright, this is the arc or the theme of this manuscript that I’m creating, did you ever have to prompt yourself to write certain poems about certain things?

MA: Yes, absolutely. And it’s also because I did the job for a little over a year, and then took a break, and then came back to it. But I decided I was going to give it a one-year framework and align it with the seasons.

NS: Nice, yeah.

MA: At some point, I realized I don’t have enough winter poems or something, you know? So, I would maybe have a poem that took place in a different season and, like, turn it into a different season or something like that.

And also, just theme-wise, the second section opens with this poem,” History of Fire,” that’s a lot about the speaker’s drinking. When I finally wrote that poem, it kind of opened the book for me because the whole time I was writing it, I had this fear of, like, am I just sharing other people’s stories? Where does the speaker fit into this?

NS: Yeah, so that was going to be one of my questions—if you had any fears about that. Because when you are telling other people’s stories, like, how do you do it with respect and grace? Which I think you absolutely did.

I was wondering if that was something you were thinking about.

MA: I was thinking about it a lot. Because I’m telling these women’s stories, and I’m also telling my dad’s story.

NS: Yep.

MA: And so, at some point, I feel like I, as the speaker slash writer, you know, we’re very closely aligned. I felt like I had to be risking as much as anyone else was risking in this book.

NS: Yeah, I love the thread of the speaker’s relationship with alcohol throughout. I think that adds layers to the book. And it’s one of the things that makes it so successful.

This is kind of a dumb question, and it’s more for myself, but for your writing process, is it easier for you to write from prompts? Like, when you know that you need to write a particular poem for the narrative of the book?

MA: I think in general I do love a good prompt, but for this book, it didn’t even necessarily feel like prompts; it felt like once I had the skeleton of the book, I had to just, like, fill holes.

But I was resenting that this book had this narrative arc.  And I think that’s part of why I did submit this book for so long. Obviously, lots of people submit their books for a long time, but I think this book is even more narrative than I would naturally write.  So, I think part of that is maybe why I did have a hard time finding a home, because it’s kind of like some of these poems could have been written as flash pieces instead of poems.

NS: Fascinating. Thank you for answering, because it’s sort of a selfish question. I’m working on two… well, right now it’s like two or three themed manuscripts at the same time, and I’m trying to, like, fill them out.

But also speaking of what you mentioned about the narrative arc in your book, I saw that in a review of your book someone even wrote how they would recommend this to people who don’t even read poetry, which I think is a huge compliment. I’m of the belief that it is good to be so-called “accessible.” Your poetry is accessible in a way that’s very deep and layered and fresh, and it’s not tired language or anything like that. Whereas I think people usually put this connotation on something, if it’s accessible, then it’s, like, not doing the work, and it’s cliché or something. I know you talked about Marie Howe being an influence, but your style also really reminds me a lot of Ada Limón.

But, I mean, I think it’s interesting how you were saying that your narrative accessibility may have been a detriment, actually, to you winning a contest and getting published. I read your article in which you wrote about this process in Writer’s Chronicle, where you sent out your manuscript for five years to many contests.

Did anybody from the contests give you feedback like that? I don’t know if you want to talk about that or not. I mean, it’s a really hard thing.

MA: Yeah. There were a few people who did give me helpful, constructive feedback that I used to revise the manuscript throughout those years. And some of it was about the last section needing a little bit more of a direct narrative closure.

NS: Anything you want to share about how you ended up with June Road Press, or anything you want to say about them?

MA: Yeah, so I read Abbie Kiefer’s book, Certain Shelter.  I had never heard of June Road, and then I loved Abby’s book, and I went to June Road’s website, and I had this tingly feeling of, like, this is the home for my book!

It sounds like a manufactured story now because I did end up there, but I put on my calendar that they opened for submissions on Thanksgiving Day. And that morning, on Thanksgiving Day, I wrote my cover letter and submitted it, and then, and I think it was sometime in January when I found out I was one of the finalists. I was actually at a residency when it happened, and I remember I just stood up from my desk, and I went and stared out the window, and I was like, maybe I’ll remember this moment because maybe this will be the place.

NS: Excellent.

MA: Yeah, I just… I’ve had such a good experience with them. I’m so obsessed with the small presses that are really devoted to their authors.

NS: Yeah. And I was going to say, I feel like they’ve done a great job with your book launch and everything, and you know, you’ve had a lot of events, and it looks like it’s been really wonderful!

MA: Yeah.

NS: I guess that kind of leads into another question that I had. You said that when you did your MFA at Southern Illinois, Judy Jordan, Allison Joseph, and the late John Tribble taught you not only how to write, but how to have a literary career. You also mentioned how you know that this holistic education is not always the case.

I was wondering if you had any wisdom or advice you wanted to share which your teachers shared with you about how to have a poetry career? Although ‘poetry career’ is kind-of an oxymoron, right?

MA: I guess one of the things which sounds so simple that I remember Allison saying was to make yourself a website. And I remember my first year making myself a website, and I only had like two or three poems published, and I was like, this feels  silly to  have a website for this small amount of stuff. But it also kind of motivated me because I wanted to fill up my website. And also, if I’m not taking myself seriously, nobody else is going to take me seriously.

I don’t know when I would have made a website if she hadn’t said to do it then. But I think that really did kind of flip something for me psychologically, as far as, like, I’m going to do this, and I’m going to do it in a professional way.

NS: Yeah.

MA: And then, a literary career is a lot about citizenship in the community.

I felt so lucky to be at that program because there was, you know, the university press’s poetry series, and there were two literary festivals on campus every year. You never know how those things will play out long-term, the people you meet early on. And it’s important to show up to these events and help organize them.

NS: Yeah, which is a lot of work but worth it. It is interesting how much in the poetry world, for better or for worse, is related to community, and that’s a big reason why I started The Indianapolis Review because I felt like I didn’t have much time to go to things in person, and when I started, my kids were so little, and I was like, well, this is something I can do and meet people virtually, you know?

Okay, so…shifting gears…

Also from that interview, you shared that Judy Jordan introduced you to Greg Orr’s “Four Temperaments of Poetry, and that has been the single most transformative piece of information which has guided your poetry. I also remember reading that essay in grad school, but I would love to hear more about that and how the four temperaments, you know, influence your drafting process.

MA: Yeah, I think I do tend to write with a seed of a narrative [the temperament of story].

And, I remember… I think it’s somewhere in that essay, or somewhere in the book, where he talks about the choice where you can really lean into your gift and be extreme in that sense, or kind of counterbalance your natural temperament with something complimentary, like using music to complement narrative or something.

And so I think that’s what I tried to do. I used music, used metaphors, similes, to compliment my narrative instincts. But sometimes I do also wonder what would happen if I just pushed really far into the narrative.

NS: Yeah.

MA: Maybe they wouldn’t end up as poems, I don’t know, but I think they still might.

NS: There are really no rules, anyway. I like to tell my students that. I mean, you know, you learn the rules, and then you just break them anyway, so…

MA: Yeah.

NS: But yeah, that could be kind of fun in the future, doing that and leaning into the narrative.

MA: What was your experience with learning about the four temperaments?

NS: Well, it’s hard for me to remember exactly at this point. My tendency was always to be more…not narrative? Like, I think that was my tendency, initially, when I first started writing poetry was that I would make a lot of jumps, and it was more surreal and stuff like that.

MA: I was gonna say, I feel like imagination is the main temperament of your work in the way your poems move.

NS: Yeah, and over time, I realized that from being in workshops in undergrad.

I majored in horticulture, but I was taking these poetry classes as electives, and I loved them so much, I ended up minoring in poetry, and, like, I realized I didn’t like when… if I read a poem and nobody understood what was going on. I thought, you know, that’s silly! I do want people basically know what’s going on. Or to have some kind of thread or take away from the poem. And so I realized I needed to start revising towards having a narrative thread, or making sense, at least.

MA: Yeah. Giving readers, like, some kind of anchor.

NS: Yep. So my next question is about how you felt when your book was finally published, which is your first and it’s pretty recent, being published last fall. I know sometimes people say that afterwards they have this really weird feeling, being so vulnerable, really exposed, or feeling kind of sad.

Did you have any strange, unexpected feelings after your book was published?

MA: Yeah, well, I guess when I found out that it was going to be published, because it was this one specific thing that I’d wanted for so long, I suddenly felt a little bit unmoored.

I also had this fear of mortality. Like, I was afraid I might die now that I know my book’s going to get published.

NS: Oh!

MA: Like, what if I die? What if I never get to actually see it, but I know it’s happening?

I don’t know, I mean, I think about death a lot anyway, but like…

NS: That’s pretty funny, actually!

Then when it finally was published, did it feel anticlimactic, or did you actually feel, like, very fulfilled?

MA: There were moments that felt really fulfilling, like my local book launch. I think largely because we moved here to West Lafayette in 2020, and so it took a long time to feel like we had community because of COVID, and so a big part of what made it feel fulfilling was at my book launch, seeing people from, like, different areas of my life here, and realizing I have made a community. Most of the people there weren’t writers, because I don’t have a big writing community.

NS: Do you teach?

MA: I taught first-year composition for a couple years here at Purdue, and then with so much going on at the university, those positions are few and far between, so I’m not teaching anymore. But I have been thinking a lot about what I want to do, kind of like what you were saying about why you wanted to start Indianapolis Review when your kids were young.

NS: Yeah.

MA: I’m like, I want to start something here. But I want to be really intentional about what it is because I want to be able to sustain it. Like, doing it for 10 years would be amazing. So, it’s kind of in the background.

NS: Sorry I got so off track! What were we talking about? How you felt after your book was published?

MA: Yes. No one’s going to tell you, like, okay, you’re done promoting the book now, you can rest. There is a sense of ongoingness that is in some ways nice, but in some ways, I’m someone who just likes to be able to check something off the list. Sometimes it feels overwhelming, I guess.

NS: Yeah, I didn’t think I would be like this, but when my book came out, I kind of just didn’t really take on a lot of promotion. I was really lucky that I had different people asking me to do stuff, maybe coincidentally, around that time. Like, the Writers’ Center had wanted me to be a featured reader, and then that basically felt like my book launch.

And then mostly other things were just, like group things that I was invited to. I just suddenly felt very, very uncomfortable about having all the focus on me.

MA: Like, you didn’t want to be the headliner, you mean?

NS: Yeah, I don’t want it to be all about me, but like I said, I’ve always been that way my whole life, and I get really bad anxiety.

I did get to do that pierogi tour thing that I put together with Karen Kovacik, which was so much fun! I mean because you can always do a reading two years from now, and it’s like, you bring some of your books, and you read other stuff, and it’s just, like ongoing, you know?

MA: Right now I’m reading this book called The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker. And I was thinking about your pierogi tour reading because I was thinking about poetry readings and different ways to invite people in. This book is getting me thinking about creative types of ways to gather people.

NS: Yeah, it definitely worked, I’ll tell you that. We got so much attention, and then it actually was to the point where I was worried that we would have too many people there and run out of food, you know, because, a local newspaper picked up the event, and they interviewed me. Then they put out this article, and the local TV news station saw that, and then they contacted me and wanted me to come on the news, and they’re like, yeah, bring some pierogi. I was like, absolutely not.

And a lot of people thought I was crazy for saying no, but I was like, I’m not doing it. I’m like, because this isn’t just about pierogi, and I knew we wouldn’t have enough if it got too big, and also the space wasn’t that big. I also was like, I can’t even make that many pierogies. We made, like 300 or something, and they were gone, just gone in minutes. But I think we had just enough for each person to have at least one.

I mean, it turned out perfect, but I was just like, I’m not going on TV, I can’t deal with that.

MA: But lesson learned, offer free pierogi, and the people will come to a poetry reading.

NS: Yes! People will come! I’m telling you, If you have people in Lafayette who can make pierogi. . .

So… let’s see…

You did talk about ordering the poems in your book with the seasons and somewhat chronologically. And I read in an interview that you said one of your least favorite parts of the process is ordering the manuscript and all of that, but I think you did a beautiful job on it.

And I did notice how sometimes you’d have a small, palate cleansing poem, you know? Those poems are very image-rich, nature-y, and I thought the book was really well balanced. Did you have any thoughts which you want to share about ordering your manuscript and all of that? Any advice to share?

MA: I wish I had advice! That’s one of the things that I keep dragging my feet with working on, I think. I still have a little bit of a mental block of devoting myself to this hometown project, because on the one hand, it’s like, I could just tell it chronologically of, like, coming of age, but I feel like that’s not the answer. I feel like it needs to not be so chronological, and so I kind of just, like, keep dragging my feet on writing some of the poems. It’s hard with poetry because it’s one of those things where there’s not an arbitrary right or wrong way to order it.

NS: And I don’t know about you, but I don’t read most poetry books cover to cover. I usually skip around. But yours, I definitely read cover to cover, which was nice. I feel like with a lot of other poetry books, it’s hard to read them beginning to end.

MA: And I feel like when I was a younger poet, I was almost taught that you shouldn’t have to read them in order. That each poem needs to stand on its own.

NS: Yes.

MA: I am in a phase where I do tend to read them cover to cover, because for my book I’ve just been thinking of things kind of linearly. But yeah, I think a lot of poetry books, you don’t have to read them cover to cover.

NS: Do you have a writer’s group that helps you with revising and stuff, or trusted readers, or?

MA: So, for the past year and a half now, I’ve had this virtual essay group where we mainly read published essays and talk about them. It’s almost like a book club. But they are a trusted group of readers, and we have exchanged essays a couple of times. So I actually don’t have many people reading my poems right now, just essays.

I do have a handful of poems, totally unrelated to this project from the past few years, that I like, and I have been sending out.  And most of them haven’t gotten accepted, and I’m like, okay, maybe I do need some outside readers to tell me what’s working or not working with these.

NS: Ugh, submitting is so rough. Like when you’re saying that you sent out your manuscript for 5 years. That’s just so sad to me because to me, this book is so strong! It’s just the fact that it’s so hard to get published through this contest system, you know?

Okay, I also wanted to tell you that I love the setting of your book and your rich description of place. It’s almost like its own character in the book, and you know, I’ve told you before, I myself am familiar with the setting, because I went to Clemson for my undergrad. And with my ex-boyfriend, we would just go into the mountains all the time, and we loved going to Asheville.  And then I also related to it in this weird way, too, because when I went to Clemson, it was like, I’m never coming back to Indiana.

MA: Mmm.

NS: When I went to Clemson, I wasn’t necessarily in the greatest place with some of my family, and there were many parts of myself that I was running away from and escaping, and …ultimately, I could not escape.

So there’s a lot of interesting ways that I resonate with this book, too.

I mean, I chose to come back, but, you know, I love the line where you talk about how the mountains are alive with melancholy. I really related to that.

And I love that when you read this book, you’re just totally immersed in it with all of the imagery, and the setting, and the characters as well, and everything that you did and experienced, it’s just very visceral, and I think that’s something extremely powerful.

I mean, when we were talking about contests. Again, maybe I will strike this from the interview, but, you know, a lot of these books that win contests, you may read them, and think they are alright, but the poems don’t stay with you.

MA: Yeah.

NS: And you’re like, I don’t even know what that was about. I read it, and I don’t remember anything. But I will definitely remember your book!

It makes me so mad that maybe some people might have rejected your manuscript because they think it’s too accessible, like you were saying. I feel like this is what poetry needs, and it’s inviting, and it’s wonderful, and like, why is that bad?

Now, if you look at the history of poetry through time, that was not an issue. Poetry started for everybody! It started, you know, to share these myths and cultural stories and to perform them.

Sorry to keep going off!

MA: No, this is actually very healing for me to hear.

I sometimes think, too, about Indiana or Midwestern poets. There are really good poets who are accessible, and I think that sometimes they get overlooked as far as the more highbrow literary prizes and things.

NS: Somehow we have anomalies, like Diane Seuss, thank God.

MA: Yes.

NS: She made it through… I think a lot of us look to her and feel hope, at least me personally, and a lot of people I know in the Midwest. She writes proudly about being from rural Michigan, and she is also so supportive of so many other writers. She is also very down to earth.

MA: In general, thinking about Indiana, I don’t think you were at the Gathering of Writers this year, but Ashley C. Ford was the keynote this year, and she said something that I’ve been thinking so much about. She said it in this perfect way, that when she came back from New York to Indiana, everyone said, why did you come back to Indiana? And her reply was, New York doesn’t have better or smarter people, they just have better PR.

NS: Right, right.

MA: I have so many polarized feelings about Indiana.

NS: Oh, of course.

MA: The politics, of course. But also almost everybody I love in this world has some connection to Indiana because that’s where I was born and raised and went to college and live now. The people here are great, but we just need to fix some things about Indiana.

NS: Yeah, I mean, I ultimately moved back because I broke up with my boyfriend from college, who was a great guy, but I was just very troubled. I was a very troubled person. I’m better now, okay? [laughs] But still, I wanted to be near my friends and family and stuff. So it’s like, I’m just trying to make the best of it, and that was also one of my goals with Indianapolis Review, to promote Midwestern writers and Indiana writers in particular.

I think it’s just good for people to know that there are people in Indiana who write poetry!

MA: Seriously, yeah, there are people here thinking critically about the places they live and everything going on in the world and creating.

NS: You know, somehow, I think the main thing is just if they’re not paying attention to us, so what? Just keep doing your own thing. Start your own press, have your own journal, start your own reading series. There’s always people around to do stuff with!

MA: Yeah.

NS: But anyway, I love your book! It’s amazing, and I’m so happy that you talked to me. I really appreciate it, and I wish you much success, and good luck with the Indiana Author Awards!

MA: Thank you, you too!

NS: Yeah, no problem. Are there any organizations or places you want to shout out in Indiana? I always ask people that.

MA: There’s this amazing organization here in Tippecanoe County called Transformed Birth Services. And they’re all about improving maternal health disparities.

They’ve only been around for a few years, but they basically  provide doulas and all sorts of concrete support, even just helping with rent to pregnant moms or newly postpartum moms. And they just got this big grant from IU Health.

Natalie Solmer Nice!

MA: I just I care a lot about moms, and supporting moms in, like, these early stages. So, yeah, get involved with what you care about in Indiana.

NS: Oh, that’s really awesome. I love that! Aww, okay. Well, thank you so much, and good luck with everything, and we’ll just keep in touch!

MA: Thank you, Natalie.

Mary Ardery is the author of Level Watch  (June Road Press, 2025). Her poems appear in Beloit Poetry Journal, Best New Poets, Poet Lore, Prairie Schooner, The Missouri Review  online, RHINO, and elsewhere. Her prose and photography appear in publications such as The Sun, DIAGRAM, The Indianapolis Review, and The Cincinnati Review online. She earned a BA from DePauw University and an MFA from Southern Illinois University Carbondale, where she won an Academy of American Poets Prize. The recipient of a Lifelong Arts Fellowship from the Indiana Arts Commission, she was born and raised in Bloomington and now lives in West Lafayette, Indiana with her husband, son, and Boston Terrier named Bug.​

Natalie Solmer was born and raised in South Bend, Indiana, a granddaughter of Polish and Silesian immigrants. She worked in the field of horticulture for many years, including 13 years as a grocery store florist, before becoming a professor of English and creative writing. In addition, she is the founder and editor in chief of The Indianapolis Review. Her work has been published in journals such as North American Review, Notre Dame Review, Pleiades, Mom Egg Review, and Tab Poetry Journal. Her debut book of poems, Water Castle, was published by Kelsay Books in the fall of 2024. You can find her poems, visual poetry, and visual art at http://www.nataliesolmer.com

Next Page (

Previous Page (